I am deliberately diverting from the racial strife of the past few days. I have SO much to say, but I’m just too gobsmacked to go there right now.
This past weekend, just before the country went bat-crap crazy, life was going on elsewhere. One of my Facebook friends posted a clip of Dr. Juanita Bynum’s infamous “No More Sheets 2” video. The original video is over an hour long, but a 3-minute clip and a 5-minute clip have been going viral. The subject matter covers Dr. Bynum’s assessment on how women dress in church these days.
Yeah. She went there.
My FB friend wanted to open a discussion. For some reason, she did not expect the response that she got.
Bear with me. I knew that this was going to be a firestorm of a debate (because it always is), and most of the opinions were not going to be in favor of Dr. Bynum. That bothered me. I don’t consider myself a disciple of hers, but I have absorbed many of Dr. Bynum’s teachings. She has a strength that I haven’t seen in any other woman in ministry; at the time, I needed a role model like her, and she was perfect. Human beings, however, are not perfect, and Dr. Bynum’s humanness is out there for the whole world to see—and judge. I posted my comments in favor of Dr. Bynum because I agreed with her…and I wanted to speak up for her side of the argument. I prayed for strength, put on the full armor of God, and put myself out there like I haven’t done in years.
I should probably mention that when it comes to online debates, I am an assassin. My pen is fearless, and when Jenise and I started our ministry, I took no prisoners when people came for us. The jugular would be my last stop. I approach a debate like a chess match, steadily advancing till my opponent has no more countermoves, nothing left to say. I’ve had to scale back a lot over the years, because Jenise never really appreciated The Assassin. So I had to retire her. Until last weekend.
I’m showing you the entire argument. If, while reading the blow-by-blow, you’d like to take issue with my position, I only ask that you arm yourself by watching the entire video first. Otherwise, I am not interested.
Here it all is, starting with my first comment on the 3-minute clip. The bold comments are my thoughts as I edit and process.
Chantal M— I love it. Some women (and men!) think that coming to church too tight and half naked expresses their freedom. It’s not about the ‘old-fashioned’ church way; it’s about the Spirit on the inside. Where is your conviction? Where is your conversion? Where is your repentance? Nothing in your spirit is checking your choices?
I just *knew* that some fresh young church girl wasn’t going to leave my comment unchallenged. And sure enough….
V—G— Isn’t this the same lady that was tripping because people put oil on their legs? What is she the panty police? I could see half naked would be a complaint but your shoulders? Stop your booty from shaking? How do you stop your buttocks from shaking? Mine shake in jeans, and when they figure that out I wanna know. This is why people stop going to church. I’m not saying that some people don’t dress a little risky, but if you believe in the word. You can receive those same blessings from home. My great grandmother and grand ma were very strick church ladies. I don’t think my grandmother ever owned a pair of jeans in her life, but picking people apart like that will leave you with an empty church. Not once did I hear her say that she inquired if any of these people were struggling or could afford appropriate clothing. She was just judging. Smh Christians. 💔
Really??? This is what she leads with? Snarkiness? Asking for instruction on how to keep her own behind from shaking? Did she really think that no one would have an answer for this? Or maybe she thought everybody was scared of her. Either way, gauntlet DOWN.
Chantal M—- See, this is the problem. No one wants to be taught anything because they think we’re judging. If you can’t be checked, then you can’t grow. She’s not telling anybody what to wear and what not to wear. She wants to know why you’re not telling yourself not to wear that in the house of God. She’s telling YOU to judge you. BTW, if you don’t know how to keep it from shaking, cover it. Not that difficult. Why is the spirit in you telling you something different.
· August 11 at 10:39am · Edited
Ball’s in your court, Ms. Thing.
V—G— The spirit in me tells me that no one will be checking me in any situation. The proper way to handle this is to address the person or people. The SPIRIT and the Bible tells you to come as you are, true that some people pushes it to the extreme but this lady is judging. I guess putting oil on your leggs is against the Christian way as well. ✋ stop with the nonsense. . And if jeans can’t control a butt from shaking I’m waiting for you to tell me what does since you have all the answers on what people’s spirit should tell them. Being petty and going to social media is not the way to handle it, you have to address or try to fix the problem instead of ranting on Facebook. How immature that looks as a elder and believe me she will have an empty church with that mess. I believe in one of her rants before she was talking about twerking on a deacon? She might speak some truth but the way she is doing it isn’t holy by far. Like I said if it’s about having a relationship with God, not her. I would rather for someone to tap the person on the shoulder and see if there is a problem of why this person is doing this other than going online and think that’s how you address situations. We’re talking about people in the church not the mall.
*voice of Megatron* Oh….so unwise. Weak, trite argument. Arrogance. Attitude. All bluster, no knowledge. Return of The Assassin.
Chantal— Ooh…now who’s sounding judgmental? You’ve already decided who Juanita Bynum was directing the message to, and how much I know and don’t know. I told you the answer to your butt-shaking problem; you’re not humble enough to hear it. Like I said, she’s challenging you to correct yourself so that church mothers like her (and me!) won’t have to. And if your spirit is so fragile that you’ll leave the church because somebody dared to correct you, then it’s best that you leave. How can you handle spiritual warfare if you can’t handle somebody telling you about yourself? The church won’t be empty. There are plenty of people there who are strong enough to handle being checked.
· August 11 at 5:34pm · Edited
Personally, I’d been wanting to say that for decades! And just as a snack, I threw this one in….
Chantal M—- “Come as you are” was never meant to mean “Stay as you are”. Repentance is a process. Allow the Body of Christ to help you through it. Learn. Study. Grow. Change.
· August 11 at 4:55pm · Edited
If she wasn’t heated with me before, she certainly is now!
V—G— You can say whatever it is that you like but elders don’t act like that. I don’t know whom that you speak of but that means nothing to the situation. The youth are our future and future leaders, and all I’m trying to say is there is an appropriate way you handle things like this. What she did wasn’t it. Don’t start switching the word to back up your theory, it’s all about communication. And if jeans Don’t stop a butt that jiggles? What does, you didn’t answer the question with a resolution, that would be covered body part. It’s seems as if these church folk is too worried about the wrong thing. And that is one if the reasons why the youth are straying away from the church. I think they need to take some leadership classes to help be an influence in someone’s life instead of being Facebook trolls in today’s society. Just my opinion and that is all. Have a Blessed remainder of your day ✌
This is the equivalent of the Black-girl move: saying your piece (which makes very little sense) and walking away before the person can answer. Apparently, Ms. Thing doesn’t realize that even if you block me (which is an instant white flag in my book), I can still answer you. If you don’t see it, everyone else will. She wasn’t gone; she just thought that she could shut me up.
Chantal M—- Elders and church mothers have been leading since before this new youth movement was ever born, but now they need to be taking leadership classes because youth today aren’t used to being corrected. Ri-i-i-ght. You’re not the first generation to think that you know everything, and you won’t be the last to find out that you don’t have all the answers. Whatever youth you’re talking about that’s straying away from the church (mine has hundreds), they’re straying because there’s no longer a standard that sets them apart. They don’t want to hear the old one, and they don’t have a solid new one. Everything that you need to hear isn’t going to be sprinkled in sugar. Sorry to break it to you. Just like I’m not going to sugar-coat the resolution to your butt-shaking dilemma: figure out how to dress like you’re representing God instead of advertising for a man. Still not that difficult. Humble yourself and listen, instead of getting pricked by the delivery. Just my experience, and that is all.
· August 11 at 5:56pm · Edited
F—B— (the friend who posted the video)
Chantal M—- And Let The Church Say Amen!!!!!😁
Oh, Ms. V did NOT like that. Black-girl Walkback in 5,4,3,2….
V—G— There will be no church to say amen if no one’s there. It’s how you treat people, and you can’t justify that the way she addressed the issue in this video was the appropriate for a mother of a church. If you agree then there is some serious healing that needs to go on in your church, that starts with communication. The adults arent to ahead of the petty actions of kids. And just because everyone is supposed to be holier than thou doesn’t mean that what comes out of your mouth is right. And as a “mother” of a church you feel that whatever way you address it is cool? No its not… I’m not offended by the video because it doesn’t pertain to me and the way my booty shakes. It’s what the Lord blessed me with. And what she’s saying about shoulders and oiled leggs.. ?? Come on now.. I know if I was a member of your congregation and you made a video of such, my children and I would seek other guidance. Not because you adressed the issue, but how you did it. That’s not the way for anyone that is an adult to behave when dealing with church members. And I’ve already taken my leadership classes, and it’s OK to take constructive criticism from others as well, that’s how you learn and grow remember. Now do you wanna be a respectable “mother” to a church? Or the booty police??? Just saying.. count your blessings and not your problems.
Remember how Ali would dance on his toes in the ring? That was me in the spirit. I don’t think she even knew that she was on the ropes. So I let her know.
Chantal M— I thought that you said “that is all”? Did your little ‘peace-out’ emoji and everything. I knew you weren’t done, because you are clearly offended. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t be back here, beating your point to death. And you would have stuck to the issue of Juanita’s tone instead of bringing up how YOUR booty shakes. I got your point, but you’re still missing mine. If you’re ready to leave the church because of what a church mother said (and/or how she said it), then you’re not strong enough to stand as a Christ follower. When you ride with Jesus, people are going to come for you for more than what you’re wearing. If you can’t take a dart from a church mother, then you can’t handle the fire from the enemy. In which case, it’s best that we know that early. As I said before, the church will never be empty; it will just be free from the people who are too “sensitive” for the reality of the faith walk. For those kind of people, I will swing the door wide open and wave as you leave. God needs better representation than what your new youth want to offer. Your leadership classes should have taught you that one of the first things you need to be is a servant. Humble. Teachable.
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· August 11 at 9:45pm · Edited
Been wanting to say that, too. I get so sick of these youngsters threatening to leave the church if you don’t kiss their butts and let them control everything. I could tell that she wasn’t used to somebody calling her bluff. I think we need to do more of that in the church.
V—G—- So you are saying that you would do the same? And what church is this again?
Deflection: a sure sign that you don’t have an intelligent rebuttal. Check. I love it when people who try to make me lose my cool lose theirs first. Enter my peacemaking friend again….
F—B— I’m just hear for the comments🤷🏽♀️ But come on y’all. Let’s get on one accord. Or agree to disagree. But my personal opinion I love this video
· Reply · August 11 at 10:20pm
F—B—- I’m with that. I moved on several comments ago. I’m watching the whole video right now, out of respect for Dr. Bynum. Very powerful.
· Reply ·
And I was. I’d found the whole video on YouTube, and I was really trying to move on. But V tried to be slick. She went off to reply to other people’s comments, but she was still taking digs at me in the process. So I replied to her directly. I could have been as condescending as she was, but I’m grown. And I’m representing God.
C—M— V—G— I have done the same, as a ministry leader. As for where Dr. Juanita Bynum’s church/ministry is, why does that suddenly matter? It’s obviously not a good fit for you. No disrespect intended.
· Reply · August 11 at 10:27pm
V—G— That’s what I thought. Even though you agree with the way she addressed the situation, I really don’t believe that you would do the same. I feel that she did it for likes on FB and I think you like it because it’s entertaining. Not because you would disrespect the members of your congregation, because that’s what she just did if this is even real. my only point is that regardless of your title, you can’t do that. And I’m not offended by anything, I really feel sorry for your church. Such a shame. Just remember cults started off as churches as well, you always have to be careful whom you take advice from. Yall have a good evening.
· Reply · August 11 at 10:31pm
Another babbling rant (and not taking me at the word I just said!). Another Walk-away. And another Walkback….
V—G— believe me you could never disrespect me. I wouldn’t let you that’s all I’m saying.
· Reply · August 11 at 10:32pm
Tipped your hand, Ms. Thing. You just told me that I am way up under your skin. You also proved that your head is too hard to hear me. I went to exchange kinder words with my FB friend, and I was really prepared to leave the thread alone for the night. But then, other people had joined the thread to troll Dr. Bynum. Ms. V was so thirsty for somebody to agree with her that she goes off on this tangent with the trolls, proclaiming that Dr. Bynum just made the video to get ‘likes’ on social media.
Really???? That would make Dr. Bynum the STUPIDEST preacher on the planet. This subject has pissed women off in the church for decades. In the original video (which NO ONE on this thread saw but me), she admitted that people were going to unfriend her because of the subject matter. Does that sound like somebody trying to tickle people’s ears for likes????
I could not dignify that nonsense with an answer.
Chantal M— F— B— I get it. And I’m the same way. I’m not a Bynumite, but God still uses her. V—G— has a long row to hoe, and I feel sorry for the lessons that she will learn the hard way. Disrespectful. Unteachable spirit.
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· August 11 at 10:49pm · Edited
F—B— But I don’t think it was for likes. dr.Bynum been like this before she was married and pastoring. This is just how she acts 24/7. The reason why I know because I follow her ministry and went to conferences and etc. She was a role model in my family
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F— B— Me too. I got free from a lot of mess because of Dr. Bynum’s ministry.
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Ms. Thing was still not getting intelligent support for her position, so she kept taking digs at me when talking to other people.
V—G— You can stumble and fall and pick yourself up again. And I’m not struggling with anything except the way she got on social media to always talk about her congregation. Period she did it for the likes. Any respectable “mother” would not have done that. And I said respectable. I’m sure the women in her church that she gossiping about is hurt if it had anything to do with them. If you can’t be “Real” and pull that person to the side and see if you can correct the problem what are you in it for? its not to really help, it’s for attention. That’s what children do. It’s unstable and I’m sure if it’s real which I don’t think it is. They don’t trust her for guidance. Yall can make it seem like I got issues because I don’t agree with her going to social media to think that’s a way to fix the problem. No lost soul here.. I know me and me would not consider her a leader if that was her strategy. Not saying that the things she was talking about was not real.
· Reply · August 11 at 10:47pm
Judge and be judged, Ms. V. Despite her leadership classes, she obviously had no practical experience on how to deal with telling a woman that she’s not dressed appropriately for church. And yes, I do. I make this point in the thread several times, but for the record, no matter how you put it, what words you use, or how much scripture you quote, the women NEVER take it well. But if you’re in a leadership position, and you accept the responsibility of that position, you cannot avoid the conversation. I’m positive that THAT’S why Dr. Bynum made the video.
Chantal M— SMH Still missing the point. The delivery is not always going to be sugarcoated for your comfort. Does your boss sugarcoat your evaluations? If they didn’t, would you quit? Now, you’re saying that she’s gossiping and did it for the likes. Grow up, and check the beam in your eye before trying to lecture others about judging.
· Reply · August 11 at 10:55pm
😂😂 just like some fake Christians to sit back and talk about instead of helping. 😉 sounds about right. What was the name of that church again?
· Reply · August 11 at 10:59pm
Notice that she’s not answering my questions while getting mad that I’m not answering hers.
Chantal M—- So now, she’s fake? Or are you referring to me? The more you post, the more you expose your spiritual immaturity. I pray that you get the message instead of getting offended by it.
· Reply · August 11 at 11:01pm
V—G— What was the name again?
· Reply · August 11 at 11:06pm
Chantal M—(In response to her attempts to make the argument more pointless, I inserted a couple of facepalm GIFs, because the Word says that if someone refuses to hear you when you’re trying to witness, shake the dust off your feet and keep moving. From that point on, I made a general statement to the trolls who were driving by….because the Spirit said that I wasn’t done.
· Reply · August 11 at 11:09pm
· Reply · August 11 at 11:27pm
Chantal M—- I wish that instead of throwing jabs, making jokes, backbiting, and accusing the woman of all kinds of craziness just because her message rubbed you wrong, that you would receive the message–the whole video is on YouTube–for the truth in love that it was intended to be.
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· August 11 at 11:33pm · Edited
Re-enter Ms. “I have to have the last word.” She really didn’t like my taking the high road.
V—G— Her message didn’t rub me wrong. It’s her presentation. That made me mad.. I’m convinced she did it for the likes. And yes true it was amusing hut when you think about it, these are people in her congregation. I could see if she was making accusatio…See More
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Blah, blah, blah…same stuff she was saying a-a-a-all night long. I responded with another Facepalm sticker.
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Chantal M— Live longer in the faith. Maybe you’ll get it.
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Someone else that I was talking to suddenly took Ms. Thing’s side….
A—Y—- You have the gift of discernment V—…
· Reply · August 11 at 11:57pm
The gift of what???? I’m not going to tell you what I wanted to say, but if I’d let that go, Ms. Thing would have been on her job prophesying.
A—Y— Now that she has someone here who agrees with her, maybe she’ll settle down and allow the Spirit to talk to her.
· Reply · August 12 at 12:04am
V—G—- Lol wow I see that we all have a lot of growing. I’m not hostile I just point out facts (what facts?????) and as you said sugar coating is not what I’m here for. It was just a question of ” would this be your approach as a church mother? Would you represent your church and the members in such a manner? And I hate that you feel I have other issues when I ask you these questions. I have to question the “Dr’s” motives other than she was entertainment. I call it like it is, not because I’m offended. Just like me asking you three times of the church that you represent and I still have not gotten the answer. And that is only so my children or loved ones don’t go (like I didn’t know that!). I wouldn’t dare get online and bash you (like she’s been doing all night?), I’m sure if you handle business like the lady in the video. You will do your own damage. When being a leader you have to gain people’s trust and faith in the process, but if all you have is complaints with no resolution for the process. . It just shows your character.. it’s OK everybody makes mistakes.
· Reply · August 12 at 12:41am
She really thought that she “read” me. No…she just confirmed how immature—and out of gas—she was. Ok, God….let’s introduce her to the Church Mother in me.
Chantal M—- Do not presume to lecture me about leadership. I represent God first, then my ministry, then myself. I didn’t tell you the name of my church because I knew that you really weren’t interested; you were just being argumentative. And as I said before, I have confronted young ladies on the issue of modesty. You all never take it well, but you get it eventually. I don’t disagree with the message or the method, because offense will be taken no matter how it’s communicated. You only heard a few minutes of an hour-long video, and you made some very harsh judgments based on a clip. You don’t call it like it is, because you don’t see how it is. You call things like you see them with your young, sensitive, inexperienced spirit, which is why you spent the whole night lashing out and accusing Dr. Bynum of any ulterior motive you could think of, because you didn’t like her tone. That shows YOUR character, not mine. Mothers don’t have to check their tone with daughters, and that’s who she was talking to. You’re not a daughter who wants to be taught. You’re a church member who wants to be coddled and stroked. I’m not mad at you. You’re not supposed to know everything. That’s why the older women are charged to teach the younger women. I see where you’re headed, because I was the same way that you are now. But I grew up. I learned my lessons and grew from them. You might learn something too–once you stop trying to be so snarky and disrespectful. God bless you and keep you.
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· August 12 at 10:24am · Edited
Ms. V had nothing else to say on the thread, to me or anyone else. Checkmate.
That was the end of my exchange with VG, but that wasn’t the end of the War of Words that weekend. I usually don’t respond to trolls, but something on the inside led me to take on three other people. It didn’t go well for them, either. I might post them, if anyone shows interest.
All of this cyber-infighting was happening while racists and anti-racists came to actual blows on a college campus in 2017 America. The state of the world today.
3 thoughts on “War of Words”
You sure can keep the heat up, but somehow I connect to V. I gave my life to Christ, wanted to grow, and a lot of Christian mothers gave me heat. No jewelry, make-up, extensions, short dresses, trousers etc.
I didn’t complain. I was cool, serving God. They didn’t stop there, my clothes, hair and all were so scrutinized, yet I continued. I was harassed for dancing because my behind was shaking in a maxi dress!
Yet I continued, when they came after my short-sleeve blouses and midi skirts, I could go no further, I was on a shoe-string budget, buying clothes at thrift stores, I was never asked of my well-being, only harassed about my appearance.
I eventually left the denomination, not the faith. As a leader, I speak the truth in love, because I know that love is the best sugarcoat for truth.
I agree with you. And believe it or not, I was there, too. I spent my teen years in a church where we were not allowed to wear short sleeves, and our sanctuary did not have an air conditioner. Everything that you mentioned, I can relate to…including the leaving part. Church mothering can absolutely get extreme. But that’s no reason for going to the opposite extreme, and that’s what I think the church has done to sort of apologize for being so overly strict. I’m 47 now. I’ve been on both sides of the argument. I believe that the Holy Spirit does a better job of regulating your clothing choices than any church mother. Harassment should not be necessary. I also believe that the church should maintain a standard of dress for men AND women, like workplaces and corporate America. Thanks for your comments.
Thanks too for your reply. I love your frank no-nonsense style.